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Nakajima Ki-84 Threads Part 2
Topics:
Ki-84 supplemental prototypes
Ki.84 photo in Osprey
'JAAF Aces 1937-45'
Hayate walkaround now online
Ki-84's "U.S, radio panel" in the cockpit
Ki-84 I 47 Sentai questions
Takano’s Ki-84 pictures?
HOLLOWAY Holiday Painting: Special Ki-84 Frank (4)
*PIC*
Ki-84 prop question
Ki-84
Light Brown Question
Ki-84
performance data
Correct
or accurate?
Ki
84 Frank
57th
Shinbu-Tai black-brown color ? (New)
"BLUE" Hayate-PROOF (?)
*PIC* (New)
71st Sentai Ki-84 and the loss of Maj. McGuire
(New)
Posted By: Dan Salamone <heroncreek@qwest.net>
Date: Thursday, 15 March 2001, at 9:10 p.m.
In Response To: Ki84 increase prototype (Nelson R. S. Rapello)
You are correct that this aircraft carries the ventral rack for a drop
tank. This being the case it would not have had wing mounted drop tanks unless
later modified.
Page 57 of Aero Detail #24 shows a photo of this aircraft and the
caption (in English) identifies it as production number 932, a second batch
supplemental prototype.
The tricky part of identifying the supplemental prototypes is that the
smaller detail items had practically no consistency. They had different
headrests, engine exhaust layouts, main wheel hubs, wing or fuselage mounted
drop tank racks, etc. Without seeing a clear image of the landing gear doors it
is not possible to say for sure what type of gear mechanisms this aircraft had.
Correction...
Posted By: Dan Salamone <heroncreek@qwest.net>
Date: Thursday, 15 March 2001, at 9:14 p.m.
In Response To: Ki-84 supplemental prototypes (Dan Salamone)
Looking at a photo of prototype #102 on page 54 of Aero Detail #24, this
aircraft has both the ventral rack as well as the wing mounts for drop tanks
and bombs.
Case in point that these prototypes had many variations in
equipment.....
Posted By:
Ken Glass <ken.glass@eudoramail.com>
Date:
Thursday, 31 January 2002, at 3:43 p.m.
This is for
Henry Sakaida, author of Osprey #13 'Japanese Army Air Force Aces 1937-45'.
Your book
has a b/w photo at the top of page 23 showing a line up of at least five Franks
in the back ground, behind a Manchoukuo Air Force Nate and bipe trainer. The
Franks are in a dark color on their upper surfaces with white wing tips.
Markings on their tails seem to be like those of the 104th Sentai with a
colored upper fin tip and horizontal striping on some rudders.
A b/w photo
of a natural metal finish 104th Sentai Frank is at the top of page 22. It has a
dark (red?) fin tip. Looking closely I believe the main wing tip is also dark
(red?).
There was a
recent posting on the Want Ads page by D. Pluth regarding availability of
Create 301 decals for 104th Sentai Franks. Your were credited as being in
contact with the researcher in Japan who provided information for the new Frank
decal sheet.
Can you make
the following inquiries of your collaborator in Japan?
1. Does the
photo on top of page 23 show HQ section Franks of the 104th Sentai? Does your
contact have an idea how many planes were normally assigned to the HQ flights?
2. Were
104th Sentai Franks generally marked with the chutai color on the wingtips as
on the fin tips? The Create 301 decal data sheet assigns white for HQ, yellow
for 1st Chutai, red for 2nd Chutai and blue for 3rd Chutai.
Re:
Ki.84 photo in Osprey 'JAAF Aces 1937-45'
Posted By:
Henry Sakaida
Date:
Friday, 1 February 2002, at 8:09 a.m.
In Response
To: Ki.84 photo in Osprey 'JAAF Aces 1937-45' (Ken Glass)
I will
contact Mr. Osuo about your questions and when I hear from him, I will post it
here.
Re:
Ki.84 photo in Osprey 'JAAF Aces 1937-45'
Posted By:
Ken Glass <ken.glass@eudoramail.com>
Date:
Saturday, 9 February 2002, at 4:11 a.m.
In Response
To: Re: Ki.84 photo in Osprey 'JAAF Aces 1937-45' (Henry Sakaida)
I ordered
the Create 301 decal sheets #48-CR-01 Shiden-Kai 343 Ku and #48-CR-02 Ki84-Kou
104 Sentai after seeing Dave Pluth's posting on the Want Ads portion of this
site. I received them by airmail within 14 days, secure in a card board container.
Both decals are printed by Microscale with a 2001 copyright. The color data
sheets provided are the same as shown in the posting on the Want Ads site.
Overall the presentation is similar to AeroMaster-Eaglestrike decals and makes
a favorable impression.
Included in
the Ki84 package is a 4" x 6" size scrap of paper. It is a b/w xerox
copy of three partial view sketches of a Frank. All three views are repeated
from the main color data sheet but two have been slightly altered. They appear
to concern the same plane subject of the decal sheet from the HQ flight with
white spinner, tail fin tip AND now with white wing tips, all shown in the same
plan view. Small arrows on the sketch seem to indicate the white marking
applied to both upper and lower surfaces of the wing tips. All script on the
xerox scrap is in Japanese. I can't determine if the intent of the sketches is
to indicate the same marking treatment for the wingtips of the three component
chutais of this sentai.
The white
wing tip detail is not shown on the main color profile data sheet that comes in
the package. I presume that marking detail was determined after the color art
work was done. Can you determine from your collaborator in Japan if the other
chutai wing tips were similarly marked in their respective colors?
Posted By:
Mike Connelley <msc@ifa.hawaii.edu>
Date:
Tuesday, 22 January 2002, at 3:43 p.m.
The ki84
Hayate (Frank) walkaround in now online. It seemed to work well when I tested
it, so if there are any problem drop me an email. I must apologize for the
pictures occasionally being grainy and low in contrast. Many pictures were dark
and needed a lot of image processing to get to be what they are. These images
are also large (1600x1200 pixels). I chose to display them full size to
preserve the maximum detail and information. There are several walkaround sites
out there, but the info they have on submitting pictures seems to frown upon
large images. Being that these pictures are large, I think they will nicely
complement the Aero-Detail book. The book has greater coverage of the cockpit
and engine areas, and they could climb all over the plane, but thier photos are
occasionally small. The 80 or so photos cover just about every thing I could
get a shot of, from most any agle I could get the camera to. The museum also
has a T-6 Texan parked out front. I thought it was cute and took a few shots,
which are also posted.
Visiting the
museum is a sobering and somber experience (anyone who has visited the Arizona
Memorial knows the feeling). Photography is prohibited in the museum. I think
this is because they don't want people carrying on and taking snap shots like
it's Disney Land. To get these pictures, I had to ask for special permission
from the manager (through my girlfriend since I don't speak Japanese...these
shots are as much due to her efforts as to mine) to take pictures, and he let
me near closing time when most other visitors had left. I felt it would have been
impolite and inconsiderate to ask for too many favors, so I only asked to take
pictures of the Hayate. They also have restored ki61-II Hien and a wrecked and
corroded Zero on display. Photos of Zeros are abundant. I wasn't as personally
interested in the Hien, it's paint was obviously inaccurate, and parts of the
plane (canopy, turbocharger intake, drop tank, bomb) were obviously replicas. I
am please to have had the chance to not only examine the only example for 4
hours, but to also take as many pictures as I wanted. I am also please to share
these pictures with the public, so that anyone can benefit from this
experience.
And, by the
way, the URL is:
www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~msc/hayate.html
Posted By:
Erik Bosch <mustang5@wish.net>
Date:
Sunday, 6 January 2002, at 3:25 p.m.
I'm
wondering if I should leave the "electrical box" on the left side of
the cockpit floor off the model. Aero Detail states it's not original
equipment, and sure enough on the pics of the cockpit the Mk III radio is
missing. So this *could* be a U.S, radio?
In the FAQ I
found a posting of Dan Salamone from 1999 in which he states that there's a box
in the cockpit that doesn't belong there. I take it he meant this box. I seem
to remember that there was someone els who wrote that it's open to debate if
that box didn't belong there or not. I can't find that posting back, however.
Could you please
give your opinion on this?
Ki-84
boxes
Posted By:
Dan Salamone <heroncreek@pcisys.net>
Date:
Sunday, 6 January 2002, at 8:16 p.m.
In Response
To: Ki-84's "U.S, radio panel" in the cockpit (Erik Bosch)
That old
post was a goof of mine- the electrical box on the right side floor is OK, the
Aero Detail photo on page 65 shows a post-capture radio box high on the right
side of the cockpit. I don't have the Ki-84 kit handy right now to see if that
detail was molded in or not.
Slight
correction...
Posted By:
Erik Bosch <mustang5@wish.net>
Date:
Sunday, 6 January 2002, at 3:27 p.m.
In Response
To: Ki-84's "U.S, radio panel" in the cockpit (Erik Bosch)
The box is
situated on the RIGHT side of the cockpit floor
Posted By:
Erik Bosch <mustang5@wish.net>
Date:
Saturday, 5 January 2002, at 6:19 a.m.
I have the
Hasegawa limited release with 47 Sentai markings:
1.Where can
I find pictures on the Internet of a/c of this unit?
2.I believe
I read these aircraft were deliverd in NMF to the units and camo'd there. So
these a/c would show heavy chipping on the green, the grey, the white
"flags" on the wing and the unit markings?
3.As I read
on this site that the Hinomarus (and the leading edge stripe) were painted at
the factory, these would have been primered and therefore wouldn't chip (as
much)?
4. What
technique can you recommend for the paint chipping?
Quite some
questions..... Thanks for your time and effort!
Re:
Ki-84 I 47 Sentai questions
Posted By:
Dan Salamone <heroncreek@pcisys.net>
Date:
Saturday, 5 January 2002, at 9:00 a.m.
In Response
To: Ki-84 I 47 Sentai questions (Erik Bosch)
Click on the
below link, and scroll down to the Ki-84. There are 3 pages of photos, some of
them being repeated at least once.
Link:
http://www.ijaafpics.com
Re:
Ki-84 I 47 Sentai questions
Posted By:
Dan Salamone <heroncreek@pcisys.net>
Date:
Saturday, 5 January 2002, at 8:57 a.m.
In Response
To: Ki-84 I 47 Sentai questions (Erik Bosch)
Below is a
link to an article of a 47th Sentai Hayate I built a few years back. It has
some tips on one (of many) paint chipping techniques.
IIRC, the
Ki-84 was painted at the factory as there were a few schemes seen, one being a
dark green over grey/green-grey and another that was brown over a similar
color. I also have FS numbers for these schemes near the end of the article.
Some
aircraft were heavily chipped, and others were not. Probably was purely how
long each aircraft was in service and where they were, etc.
I will also
attach a link to a separate message with a page of photos of actual Hayates. If
you wish to own a nice, low cost reference I suggest Famous Aircraft of the
World #19 as it has many photos and line drawings, etc.
Link:
http://www.kitparade.com/features00/ki84ds_1.htm
Re:
Ki-84 I 47 Sentai questions
Posted By:
Erik <devilsled@earthlink.net>
Date:
Thursday, 10 January 2002, at 3:08 p.m.
In Response
To: Re: Ki-84 I 47 Sentai questions (Dan Salamone)
Re: qustion
#4
Im building
the Ki-84 and tried the following paint chipping technique for the first time.
It worked very well.
Paint a/c
with metallizer. (I used testors).Buff lightly.
Seal with
metallizer sealer.
I used IJA
Green from Tamiya. First time using Acrylic paints and this might have
contributed to the great look.
After
airbrushing, wait 10-15 min. Take some tape and dab the areas you want the
paint to flake off.Wrap tape into tight circle- you want to start with small
sections of tape-its very effective.
Final
sealing done by spraying with Future. Then wash with whatever method you
prefer. This was my first attempt and I am very pleased with the results!
Posted By:
Bennet <demodelbouwer@hotmail.com>
Date:
Tuesday, 25 December 2001, at 11:25 p.m.
I am working
on Hasegawa’s Ki-84. I want to make Corporal Takano’s airplane (Aeromaster
Decals # 48-174, i.e. the a/c with the red “arrow”). Unfortunately the
references I have (Aero Detail, and Schiffer) do not have picture(s) of this
aircraft. Therefore I will appreciate it very much if somebody can help me with
the following questions.
1) Are there
any pictures available of is this specific a/c.
2) Is the
a/c (heavily) weathered?
3) Can
somebody scan the picture(s) and e-mail them to me?
Re:
Takano’s Ki-84 pictures?
Posted By:
Martin Ferkl
Date:
Sunday, 30 December 2001, at 2:53 a.m.
In Response
To: Takano’s Ki-84 pictures? (Bennet)
Hayate No.
21 from 57th Shinbu Tai flown by Corp. Takano (Kohno?) is depicted in Model Art
451. You can find some photos of Hayates used by this suicidal unit in this
book.
Re:
Takano’s Ki-84 pictures?
Posted By:
John Dillon <john.dillon@wachovia.com>
Date:
Monday, 31 December 2001, at 6:39 a.m.
In Response
To: Takano’s Ki-84 pictures? (Bennet)
There is a
picture of that aircraft in the FAOW on the Ki-84, but it is at a distance that
doesn't reveal any particular detail. There are a series of photos of that unit
(57th Shimbu-Tai) and the other planes show some weathering (a little chipping
and some signs of paint fading) but nothing extreme.
One thing to
note. I believe Aeromaster calls for the plane to be done in black, and there
is a color profile in the FAOW in black as well (probably where Aeromaster got
the idea). Based upon the photos of the other planes in the unit, I doubt very
much whether this plane was actually black. To my eye, it is pretty clear that
the other planes are green or brown--take your pick. I'd go with green since
the majority of Ki-84's seemed to have received that color out of the factory.
Posted By:
Dan Salamone <heroncreek@pcisys.net>
Date:
Sunday, 16 December 2001, at 1:36 a.m.
Awhile ago
Joern Lecksheid posted a photo showing two Hayates belonging to the 64th Sentai
in Burma. Below is a link to that post with text and the photo.
He asked
(and I'm still wondering) if anyone may be able to date the photo, and tell
what Chutai operated these aircraft?
Of note is
that the aircraft to the left is NMF with splotches where the aircraft to the
distant right seems to be camouflaged and have a light colored spinner. Also,
the NMF aircraft has the single exhaust stub of the early supplemental
prototypes but it is very hard to tell if it has the elongated muzzle covers on
the cowl or a centerline drop tank pylon. Very interesting photo and
circumstances!
Editors
note: Picture at http://home.t-online.de/home/joern.leckscheid/Army/64SentaiHayate.jpg
Posted By:
James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date:
Sunday, 9 December 2001, at 7:13 a.m.
4.
"Here's the plane that has taken me the longest time to confirm. It first
appeared in Scale Modeller in the 70's but with a different scheme and the
wrong pilot. Actually the pilot was Lt. Kurai Toshizo, No.1 Chutaicho, No. 1
Operational Training Unit (No.520 Temporary Intercept Sentai). He wore the same
style kill markings on his sleeve.
I'm on to
doing a painting of another plane!
Is there any
in particular you'd like to see?"
Art: (c)
2001 by James Holloway
Editors
note: Picture at http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/ki-84_1kfr_jh_d.jpg
Re:
HOLLOWAY Holiday Painting: Special Ki-84 Frank
Posted By:
James Holloway <bobwimple@aol.com>
Date:
Sunday, 9 December 2001, at 5:21 p.m.
In Response
To: HOLLOWAY Holiday Painting: Special Ki-84 Frank (4) *PIC* (James F.
Lansdale)
Sirs, my
thanks to Mr. Lansdale for posting these for me, I am very good at posting
those little boxes with the X in them and little else. This Frank took me the
longest to find, I thought I had the scheme since the early 80's and I want to
thank George Elephtheriou and Joel Leckschied for providing final confirmation
and true pilot's name. It has been said in other publications that this plane
had a mottled camoflage, but it seems this unit had an uneven solid topcoat
that was severly weathered and scraped, giving a mottle effect in some places.
Re:
HOLLOWAY Holiday Painting: Special Ki-84 Frank
Posted By:
Deniz Karacay <denizkaracay@yahoo.com>
Date:
Sunday, 9 December 2001, at 1:03 p.m.
In Response
To: HOLLOWAY Holiday Painting: Special Ki-84 Frank (4) *PIC* (James F.
Lansdale)
Great job.
Is this the Ki84 appeared on Superscale's Axis Aces of WWII, I am about the get
the sheet soon though I am certain that kill markings are the same though that
a/c did not have weathering as this one.
What do you
think if I want something very difficult and selfish? How about Kobayashi's
Ki100? (I have two Ki100 kits waiting :))) )
Re:
HOLLOWAY Holiday Painting: Special Ki-84 Frank
Posted By:
James Holloway <bobwimple@aol.com>
Date: Sunday,
9 December 2001, at 6:02 p.m.
In Response
To: Re: HOLLOWAY Holiday Painting: Special Ki-84 Frank (Deniz Karacay)
Sir, This
plane is another one I have been hunting for years. I was told this by Tokyo
Historian Sakurai Takeda: The one photo that we've seen that shows him standing
in front of the kill marks, the ki100, just out at time was considered top
secret so was not allowed to be photograghed "in combat", so no other
photo of his plane is KNOWN to exist.It does seem to explain why since he seemed
to be so publicity minded that there aren't a lot of photos of this plane
around.
Kobayashi's
Ki100 *PIC*
Posted By:
Deniz Karacay <denizkaracay@yahoo.com>
Date:
Tuesday, 11 December 2001, at 7:48 p.m.
In Response
To: Re: HOLLOWAY Holiday Painting: Special Ki-84 Frank (James Holloway)
Perhaps you
have seen this already but anyway I post it.
From: FAOW
No23 1990-7: Army Type 5 Fighter
Editors
note: Picture at http://www.umr.edu/~dkaracay/koki100.jpg
Re:
HOLLOWAY Holiday Painting: Special Ki-84 Frank
Posted By:
James Holloway <bobwimple@aol.com>
Date:
Tuesday, 11 December 2001, at 1:41 a.m.
In Response
To: Re: HOLLOWAY Holiday Painting: Special Ki-84 Frank (Deniz Karacay)
I've seen
this plane, too and the markings were copied from Kobayashi's Ki61, to moke it
more colourful. It's since been repainted in an accurate scheme,green over
grey, and the markings of the 5th Sentai, I think.
Posted By:
Erik
Date:
Saturday, 2 February 2002, at 4:53 p.m.
Does anyone
know if the prop blades on the Frank were made of wood or metal? Joe Baugher
did an excellent write up on this aircraft, but no info on the blade material.
I beg the gentelmen of this board for enlightenment!
Re:
Ki-84 prop question
Posted By:
Mike Connelley <msc@ifa.hawaii.edu>
Date:
Saturday, 2 February 2002, at 11:32 p.m.
In Response
To: Ki-84 prop question (Erik)
When I visited
the plane, it looked like metal to me. I recall that there was a chip taken out
of an edge of one of the blades. The nature of the chip looked like metal, not
wood. I meant to take a photo of this blade, but I seem to have forgotten.
Anyway, take a look.
Link: http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~msc/hayate.html
Re:
Ki-84 prop
Posted By:
richard dunn <rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu>
Date:
Sunday, 3 February 2002, at 6:11 a.m.
In Response
To: Ki-84 prop question (Erik)
A lengthy
and highly detailed notebook on the Ki 84 was captured at Mabalacat in the P.I.
in 1945. It contains these comments in the propeller section:
"A PE
32 electrical type constant speed propeller is used on this airplane. The
diameter of the propeller is 3.10 m and is a metal, four bladed propeller. Its
weight is approximately 180 kg..."
Posted
By: Christopher Dowsett <mainscreen@optusnet.com.au>
Date:
Saturday, 6 April 2002, at 5:20 p.m.
I
am currently working on the old Tamiya Nakajima Ki-84. I want to model the
light brown aircraft flown by Capt Tadao Ikeda,
from
the 51st Sentai based at Shimodate airfield in Feb 1945. The aircraft
features on Page 55, plate 18 of the Osprey Aviation
Elite
No5 ~ B-29 Hunters of the JAAF by Koji Takaki & Henry Sakaida. I am new
to JAAF aircraft models. My questions are: What colour light
brown
is it and what is the closest in the Gunze range or PMS colours? Is there
any more information/pics about the pilot or this aircraft around?
Re:
Ki-84 Light Brown Question
Posted
By: Dan Salamone <heroncreek@pcisys.net>
Date:
Sunday, 7 April 2002, at 3:07 p.m.
In
Response To: Ki-84 Light Brown Question (Christopher Dowsett)
Best
bet is to check the Ki-84 FAQS. It is quite comprehensive as far as FS
codes, etc. and timelines on when certain colors (may) have been used. Can't
help though on Gunze matches, or info on the pilot. Hope this helps,
Posted
By: Steve C <contella@wt.net>
Date:
Thursday, 18 April 2002, at 12:38 p.m.
In
Rene Francillon's book "Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War" he
says that during the service trials the Ki-84 attained a top speed of 388
mph. I take this to mean that the prototype reached this speed. Also the
prototype aircraft used 1,800 hp engines where as the production aircraft
used 1,900 hp engines Homare [Ha-45] 11, and 12. It would seem logical that
the higher horsepower engined aircraft were faster.
Does
anyone have any other performance data for the Hayate? Specifically tests
performed in Japan during the war. I know that the Clark Field aircraft was
tested in 1946 and attained a higher speed (427 mph) using higher octane
fuel and a higher blower (supercharger) setting.
Also
I have the Meru Mechanic book on the Ki-84 mostly as a pictorial reference
however is it mentioned that the Ki-84 used water injection? None of my
other references mention water injection.
Re:
Ki-84 performance data *PIC*
Posted
By: Deniz Karacay <denizkaracay@yahoo.com>
Date:
Tuesday, 23 April 2002, at 6:44 a.m.
In
Response To: Ki-84 performance data (Steve C)
From
FAOW No 20 Ki84 1971.
Certainly
a match to Allied a/c under 20 000 ft. Unfortunately for Japanese, it was
too little too late.
Editors
note: Picture no longer available.
Re:
Ki-84 performance data
Posted
By: richard dunn <rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu>
Date:
Thursday, 18 April 2002, at 2:58 p.m.
In
Response To: Ki-84 performance data (Steve C)
I
have a copy of a translation of a captured document (hand written notes) of
unknown reliability which indicates two maximum speeds for the Ki 84-1
(Light) and Ki 84-1 (Improved). The two speeds apparently relate to the Ha
45 rating of 2000 hp at 1500 meters and 1800hp at 6000 meters.
Ki
84-1 (Light) 664 kph (=412 mph) and 693 kph (=430 mph)
Ki
84-1 (Improved) 658 kph (=409 mph) and 688 kph (=427 mph).
Fully
equiped wgt of Light = 3576 kg; Improved = 3858 kg
Re:
Ki-84 performance data
Posted
By: JC Butte <fluiddude@aol.com>
Date:
Friday, 19 April 2002, at 2:39 p.m.
In
Response To: Re: Ki-84 performance data (richard dunn)
The
US conducted post war flight testing of a KI 84 and achieved a top speed of
427 mph at 22,000' (posting from memory). This was in a superbly restored
and maintained aircraft using top grade fuel. I doubt the Japanese were able
to secure such performance under late war conditions. I have seen different
figures for top speed at 20,000' (398 and 408 mph respectively, possibly
reflecting the different engines used in this craft.
Re:
Ki-84 performance data
Posted
By: richard dunn <rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu>
Date:
Friday, 19 April 2002, at 3:04 p.m.
In
Response To: Re: Ki-84 performance data (JC Butte)
I
only report what the document says.
During
the war TAIC rated Ki 84's max speed at 422 mph.
There
are many instances when Japanese "official" figures are less than
US tests and observed combat performance.
One
pilot's notes on the Ki 84 recommended always flying at overboost during
combat. You wouldn't do that with an Allied fighter. What does that imply.
I'm
not trying to convince anybody of anything other than this is an area worthy
of inquiry and "received" history or the know "truth" on
such matters may be something less than history or truth.
Re:
Ki-84 performance data
Posted
By: Nick Millman
Date:
Thursday, 18 April 2002, at 1:02 p.m.
In
Response To: Ki-84 performance data (Steve C)
In
August 1943 the second pre-production example was reported to have achieved
394 mph (643 kph) level speed at 21,800 ft (6,645 m) piloted by Tachikawa
test pilot Funabishi. In diving trials the same aircraft achieved 496 mph
(798 kph).
I
guess this was in "clean" configuration.
In
operations the type suffered from unreliability.
Re:
Ki-84 performance data
Posted
By: Steve C <contella@wt.net>
Date:
Thursday, 18 April 2002, at 1:36 p.m.
In
Response To: Re: Ki-84 performance data (Nick Millman)
Is
there a source for that report? Any additional info would be of great help.
Re:
Ki-84 performance data
Posted
By: Nick Millman
Date:
Thursday, 18 April 2002, at 3:20 p.m.
In
Response To: Re: Ki-84 performance data (Steve C)
No,
it comes from the development history of the type in Green & Swanborough,
1977, but unfortunately the original source is not cited.
It
may be of interest to you that the SEAC Weekly Intelligence Summary 39 of
13th August 1944 first mentions the Ki-84, Summary 41 of 27th August 1944
gives tentative performance figures (TIR 338, Page 3) and Summary 49 of 22nd
October 1944 reports, in TIR 390:
"sightings
and combat photographs show that a new type of Jap (sic) fighter reported as
having a 'tremendous speed' is in action in China".
A
7-point description is given, suggesting it is "Frank" but there
is also speculation about Shiden and different points are noted. The report
also mentions a crashed unidentified fighter in China with 2x20mm and
2x12.7mm armament.
Posted
By: richard dunn <rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu>
Date:
Thursday, 18 April 2002, at 4:30 p.m.
In
Response To: Re: Ki-84 performance data (Nick Millman)
No
need to put "(sic)" after "Jap" that's what they were
called.
Somebody
objected to "in-line engine". Maybe they were correct technically
but they were historically inaccurate. "V" engines were routinely
called in-line engines during ww2.
We've
also discussed "F" and "FR" for the abbreviation for
Hiko Sentai. The "F" is correct (and used in post-war Japanese
official histories) but "FR" (from an old standard) was far more
common in actual ww2 documents.
So,
do you want to be correct or accurate? Not directed at you, Nick. Just a
rheotorical question?
Posted
By: sam crane <nettwerk@prodigy.net>
Date:
Wednesday, 8 May 2002, at 6:37 p.m.
I
am building a Hasagawa Ki84 Frank and just looking for some general info.
Was the fighter pressurized ?
Why
does the central part of the canopy have a lip that hangs over the edge of
the fuselage ? Do the folwer flaps fit tight against the upper wing when
they are in the closed position, or do they droop a little ? Do the wing
cannons fit snuggly against the hole in the wing, or is there space ?
Re:
Ki 84 Frank
Posted
By: Mike Aldrich <VaYank5150@aol.com>
Date:
Wednesday, 8 May 2002, at 9:36 p.m.
In
Response To: Ki 84 Frank (sam crane)
I
found this webpage while surfing at some point. Excellent pictures of a
rebuilt Ki-84. Maybe the pictures might answer some of your questions?
Editors
note: Link to http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~msc/hayate.html
Ki
84 Frank
Posted
By: Mike Connelley <msc@ifa.hawaii.edu>
Date:
Thursday, 9 May 2002, at 5:02 a.m.
In
Response To: Ki 84 Frank (sam crane)
Yes,
I think that's a very good site too :^). I was very fortunate to be able to
take those pictures, and to be able to study the plane for 4 hours. To your
questions:
1)
I don't think the cockpit was pressurized. There is quite a large gap
between the center canopy part and the aft part (which surprised my by being
so small).
2)
There didn't seem to much of a gap at all between the flaps and the upper
wing, quite a good fit.
3)
The cannons on the Hayate are fakes (just metal tubes really), and looked to
small to me. I think Hayates had a gap between the wing and the cannon, but
not this big. Overall, the Hayate is quite authentic, which is fortunate as
it's the only one left.
Re:
Ki 84 Frank
Posted
By: sam crane <nettwerk@prodigy.net>
Date:
Thursday, 9 May 2002, at 10:21 a.m.
In
Response To: Ki 84 Frank (Mike Connelley)
Great
pictures ! Very helpful. The photo (Ki84.220) from the rear of the aircraft
shows the canopy lip over the fuselage, and I can see the gap between the
center and rear canopy. I agree, I cant imagine the cockpit being
pressurized, but I thought they used this fighter to go after high altitude
bombers. I wasn't sure if the Hasagawa model was in error. Also, the model
has a space between the cannons and the wings, this must be accurate also. I
noticed that with the fowler flaps closed, the tiny raised triangular
"pins" recede into the wing. The flaps fit so well, you can barely
see them. However, the bolts going through the flaps appear to be keeping
the flaps level. Thanks guys !
looking
for pic of area behind Ki-84 Seat.
Posted
By: Kent <kinalk@earthlink.net>
Date:
Saturday, 22 June 2002, at 7:14 a.m.
Can
anybody offer help??
Re:
looking for pic of area behind Ki-84 Seat.
Posted
By: Don Marsh <marsh44@fuse.net>
Date:
Saturday, 22 June 2002, at 9:26 a.m.
In
Response To: looking for pic of area behind Ki-84 Seat. (Kent)
The
best shots of this area can be found in MA #493 (Nakajima Army Type 4
Fighter "Hayata" Ki 84). This is a great publication if you're
interested in the more technical aspects of the Ki-84. It mostly has photos
of the one remaining Frank and technical drawings. Although, for much less
money, I believe FAOW #19 (Army Type 4 Fighter "Hayata") is a
better general reference for the modeler, and shows more of the Ki-84 in
historic use. The FOAW only has one shot, the same one that appears in the
MA.
I'll
send you a few pics.
Posted By:
joe taylor <joe.taylor@bellhowell.com>
Date:
Thursday, 19 September 2002, at 7:11 a.m.
Are the
Gunze H62 green for top and H60 for bottom appropriate for late war home
defense units?
Can you
suggest better matches?
Any help
would be appreciated. FAQ on this was not clear
Re:
Ki 84 color help
Posted By:
Ramesh Gill <ramesh_gill@hotmail.com>
Date:
Monday, 23 September 2002, at 10:12 a.m.
In Response
To: Ki 84 color help (joe taylor)
Just your
luck...I've just completed an old 1/48 Arii Ki-84 in home defence markings too
(520th Temporary Interception Sq). Generally, Ki-84 greens and greys were
different from those of other aircraft, thus H60 and H62 may not ideal. But be
prepared for some customised mixing if you really want more accurate colors for
Ki-84s.
Using the
old Model Art Ki-84 book's color chips as guide, you get the following paint
mix ratios for Gunze paints:
Upper
Surface Dark Green: H6 - 45% + H7 - 35% + H4 - 20%
Lower Surface
Grey-Green: H1 - 70% + H2 - 15% + H4 - 5% +
H6 - 5% + H7
- 5%
I've not
tried these Gunze mixes, so I can't say how accurately these match the chips.
But I have found the Tamiya mixes that were also provided in that book to be
totally wrong. Instead, I've managed to find my own mix ratios that match these
chips almost perfectly. These are as follows:
Upper Green:
X 9 (18 parts) + X 8 (15 parts) + X 5 (7 parts)
Lower Grey
Green: XF-14 (40 parts) + X 2 (20 parts) +
X 8 (4
parts) + X 9 (1 part)
As for my
latest Ki-84, I decided to try a slighly more aged look and so used 1 part less
green for the upper camo (ie 18:15:6 instead of the 18:15:7). The resulting
tone in a little bit more brown/drab and this is how the green paints actually
tends to age [well, at least for Japanese WWII paints :)]. Plus, it gives a
subtle variation between one Ki-84 kit and another when plaved side by side. HTH.
Posted By:
Ramesh Gill <ramesh_gill@hotmail.com>
Date:
Friday, 6 September 2002, at 5:53 p.m.
Is there any
info available regarding the markings / paint-scheme used on Capt Yukiyoshi
Wakamatsu's Ki-84 during his final days? Can it be safe to assume that he
adapted the same tail and fuselage markings that he had on his camoflaged
Ki-44?
Re:
Seeking info on Wakamatsu's Ki-84
Posted By:
Nick Millman
Date:
Monday, 9 September 2002, at 2:30 p.m.
In Response
To: Seeking info on Wakamatsu's Ki-84 (Ramesh Gill)