Posted By: Andrew Johnson <mailto:ajo@ceh.ac.uk?subject=D3A1
interior>
Date: Tuesday, 4 July 2000, at 9:32 a.m.
I am eagerly looking forward to the new CMK interior detail set for the
Val, has anyone any experiences with it yet?
You can all guess my next question: what color should I paint the
interior for a Pearl Harbor Val?
Thanks
Andrew
Re: D3A1 interior
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A1
interior>
Date: Wednesday, 5 July 2000, at 3:09 p.m.
In Response To: D3A1 interior (Andrew Johnson)
Hi Andrew,
The CMK set is a big improvement over the kit interior. Especially where
they have corrected the too small rear seat. Molding of components like the
dynamotors and radios is very well done and there is a photoetch and film
instrument panel, fuel gauge panel and rear cockpit auxiliary panel. The two
surviving D3A2s have a dark green interior that is a match to Gunze Sangyo's
#6 green. Add 25% white to get the scale effect. It is probable that D3A1s
had the same green interior.
Cheers!
Greg
Re: D3A1 interior
Posted By: Amos Terrell <mailto:ATerrell@KScable.com?subject=Re: D3A1
interior>
Date: Wednesday, 5 July 2000, at 8:02 p.m.
In Response To: Re: D3A1 interior (Greg Springer)
To: Gregg Springer
Do you have even a rough guess as what this Green might be in Model
Master.
I have (per Testor's) FS34079 Dark Green, FS34102 Medium Green and FS34151
Interior Green. Of these, I believe the FS34151 is the lightest, and the
FS34709 is "nearly black".
Thanks in advance
Re: D3A1 interior
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A1
interior>
Date: Thursday, 6 July 2000, at 2:47 p.m.
In Response To: Re: D3A1 interior (Amos Terrell)
Amos,
If you can get Testor's 34095 Medium Field Green it will serve very well
if you add less white, say 20%. Otherwise use the 34102. You are wanting to
get a dark green without the olive tint that the 34079 has. 34079 is a match
for some Japanese topside dark greens however. HTH!
Greg
Posted By: Peter Fearis <mailto:Peter@pfearis.freeserve.co.uk?subject=Aichi
D1A1- D1A2 interior color>
Date: Wednesday, 9 August 2000, at 5:43 a.m.
Hi all,
I am currently working on the Choroszy D1A1 and D1A2. What I want to run
by you is the question of interior colors. I have researched extensively to
find a reference for one but cannot find anything. I have some info and color
pics of the interior of an Army Type 91 fighter from a similar period
with a blue grey interior, many other types from this period have been quoted
with a similar color. Would it be a reasonable assumption to paint the
interiors of these aircraft in the same shade?
Thanks in anticipation
Peter
Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re:
Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color>
Date: Wednesday, 9 August 2000, at 4:33 p.m.
In Response To: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color (Peter Fearis)
Hi Peter,
Here I go again. I really do think this should be a FAQ. The entire
interior of the D3A2 at the Nimitz Museum is a dark green color that is a
match to Gunze Sangyo Hobby Color #6 in full scale. That is their aqueous
paint line. Canopy framing is included. Only instrument panels are black.
Interior shots of a D3A1 shot down at Pearl Harbor show a very dark color applied
that is not too much lighter than the black panels. Thus I would
GUESS that dark green is correct for the earlier variant as well. HTH!
Cheers!
Greg
Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color
Posted By: Rob Graham <mailto:reishikisenguy@aol.com?subject=Re: Aichi
D1A1- D1A2 interior color>
Date: Wednesday, 9 August 2000, at 8:19 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color (Greg Springer)
Uhhh, Greg, I think he was asking about D1A instead of D3A. There were the
stories sometime back of the Nate's interior color, and I think the question
was aimed in this direction:
Was Aichi's color the same as Nakajima's?
I am absolutely on the edge of my seat to know this (GEEK ALERT! GEEK
ALERT! GEEK ALERT!), even though I have only a few models of that era. I am
not qualified to answer, though, if this is the case.
Thanks for the Val interior color answer, though! Do you have an FS and/or
Munsell match? If so, I'll work it into a table I am building for post-up,
and I hope to do a similar (if Munsell) chip chart to what I did over in the
research sections.
Rob
Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color
Posted By: Ryan Toews <mailto:ritoews@mb.sympatico.ca?subject=Re: Aichi
D1A1- D1A2 interior color>
Date: Thursday, 10 August 2000, at 9:23 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color (Rob Graham)
Hello Rob,
To add to your table, note that the ex-Diemert Val now in the Planes of
Fame collection had a interior color close to FS 4062.
Ryan
Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re:
Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color>
Date: Wednesday, 9 August 2000, at 8:49 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color (Rob Graham)
Doh!!
(In robotic voice) Aichi D*A1 D*A2. Must respond! Zzzzt. Zzzzt. OVERLOAD!
Aoogah! Aoogah! FS 4095 closest match to Gunze color.
Memo to self: Must not spend entire day in Texas sun wire-brushing and
phosphating back-up refrigeration compressor and then try to carry out
academic exercise. Apologies to Peter and the multitude.
Sheesh!
Posted By: Tom Matlosz mailto:<slayer14@bellsouth.net?subject=Val
Flaps>
Date: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 3:23 p.m.
Anyone have a photo or drawing for the D3A1 Val flaps that can be posted
here or emailed to me? The flaps are evidently split, two per wing,
following the wing profile. Did the Val have a filler piece between the two
flap sections when extended, like the slitter plate on a F4U Corsair? Or,
should there be a gap showing with the flaps extended?
By the way, the CMK Val control surfaces resin kit is very nice,
particularly the horizontal stabs and elevator sections! I'm still waiting
for the cockpit set.
Thanks,
Tom
Re: Val Flaps
Posted By: Ryan Toews mailto:<ritoews@mb.sympatico.ca?subject=Re: Val
Flaps>
Date: Thursday, 3 August 2000, at 8:16 a.m.
In Response To: Val Flaps (Tom Matlosz)
Hello Tom,
Both the Type 11 and Type 22 Vals had a one piece flap according to the
drawings in Maru Mechanic 34 taken from the D3A Handling Manual. The flap
hinge line was straight, cutting diagonally across the bend in the wing. The
flaps' outer surface, however, conformed to the change in the wing's
dihedral.
Ryan
Posted By: Andrew Johnson <mailto:ajo@ceh.ac.uk?subject=14th Air wing
D3A1>
Date: Friday, 7 July 2000, at 3:56 a.m.
I just picked up a 1/48 Hasegawa D3A1 decked in the markings of the 14th
Air wing (Kokutai?). Does anyone know what this group was, where it operated
and when?
Thanks
Andrew
Re: 14th Air wing D3A1
Posted By: Jim Broshot <mailto:jbroshot@socket.net?subject=Re: 14th Air
wing D3A1>
Date: Friday, 7 July 2000, at 5:57 p.m.
In Response To: 14th Air wing D3A1 (Andrew Johnson)
To add to David's posting, this is what I have compiled:
12A. 14 Kokutai 6 Apr 1938 formed with T/O:
12 A5M carrier fighters (one unit);
6 carrier bombers (one-half unit);
18 carrier attack planes (one and one-half units)
attached to 5 Kantai 15 Dec 1938 reorganized with T/O:
18 land attack planes (one unit)
18 carrier attack planes (one unit)
Nov 1939 reorganized with T/O:
18 carrier fighters,
9 carrier bombers 15 Sep 1941 disbanded at Hanoi-French Indo-China
aircraft: A5M, 4/1938-9/1941
D1A, 1938-1941
D3A, 1938-1941
G3M?
NOTE there was a SECOND 14 Kokutai formed 1 Apr 1942, but this was a
flying boat and floatplane unit (and eventually was redesignated as 802
Kokutai).
Re: 14th Kokutai D3A1
Posted By: David_Aiken <mailto:David_Aiken@hotmail.com?subject=Re: 14th
Kokutai D3A1>
Date: Friday, 7 July 2000, at 8:38 a.m.
In Response To: 14th Air wing D3A1 (Andrew Johnson)
Aloha Andrew,
The 14 Kokutai operated in China [pre-WWII]. A brief history of the
fighter portion of that unit is in the Hata/Izawa book "Nihon Kaigun
Sentokitai" [translated as IJN ACES AND FIGHTER UNITS, Naval Institute
Press].
Cheers,
David Aiken
Re: 14th Kokutai D3A1
Posted By: Ryan Boerema <mailto:ryann1k2j@aol.com?subject=Re: 14th
Kokutai D3A1>
Date: Saturday, 8 July 2000, at 10:04 p.m.
In Response To: Re: 14th Kokutai D3A1 (David_Aiken)
Getting tangetial here, ol Unca Bob of Aviation Usk once commented that
the Naval Institute Press had what was essentially the JAAF version of Hata
and Izawa's IJN Aces and Fighter Units, but were in no hurry to translate or
publish. (He encouraged readers to gently encourage Naval Institute Press --
oops! almost used their initials -- to publish.) Does anyone know anymore
about this?
Posted By: Dan <mailto:mig15@mindspring.com?subject=Pearl Harbor Val
question>
Date: Wednesday, 2 August 2000, at 9:43 p.m.
I've just come across an issue of SAM that shows a Val with a bright
yellow fuselage. However, the illustration doesn't indicate whether
(a) the upper wings were also yellow (like the elevators are)
(b) the fuselage underside was painted yellow as well, including the area
in between the lower wings.
Any info on this bright bird much appreciated.
Re: Pearl Harbor Val question
Posted By: Mike Gawell <mailto:rockavenger@hotmail.com?subject=Re:
Pearl Harbor Val question>
Date: Thursday, 10 August 2000, at 8:05 a.m.
In Response To: Pearl Harbor Val question (Dan)
The wings are BELIEVED to have been the much mysterious grey green
color...same as the fuselage underside. Be aware, that this is based on
recollection, not on photographic evidence. (I.E. go for it, and enjoy the
journey)
Cheers
Mike
Posted By: Mitch Inkster <mailto:mang521092@aol.com?subject=odd colored
Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Sunday, 6 August 2000, at 11:21 p.m.
Gang,
SAM issue volume 21 number 12 has an article on the Japanese a/c @ Pearl.
Two unusual schemes are given for the Val. EI-238 flown by Lt. Comm.
Takahashi is shown in two schemes one of which has the complete fuse. in
"yellow" with the usual colored cowl and anti-glare panels. The
article says that eyewitnesses reported a yellow Val @ Pearl but that this
is not confirmed. The second scheme in question is Egusa's BI-231 with
"grey" fuse. and what appears to be a red flame pattern on the
fuse. This plane supposedly was referred to as "The red horse". the
author seems confident that the "red" IS NOT a primer coat showing
through due to wear.
Both these schemes are interesting and I would like to know if any of you
serious students of Japanese aviation can confirm these two schemes.
Thanks,
Mitch Inkster
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
Posted By: Mike Gawell mailto:rockavenger@hotmail.com?subject=Re: odd
colored Vals @ Pearl
Date: Thursday, 10 August 2000, at 8:03 a.m.
In Response To: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (Mitch Inkster)
Mitch
This scheme has been floated before, and there is some reason to believe
that it may be correct. It was done for rally purposes after the dives. The
problem is there is no "hardcore" evidence that would definitively
point to this as THE SCHEME. There are eye witness reports, and we KNOW that
Eugusa flew a red tailed Val by April. Takahashi was also photographed
before he was killed at Coral Sea, but the photo is sadly inconclusive. My
PERSONAL opinion is model one, and let the color police give chase. If
caught, show them the SAM article as your reference/defense. Just don't let
them read the text....many factual errors there.
Cheers
Mike
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
Posted By: David_Aiken <mailto:David_Aiken@hotmail.com?subject=Re: odd
colored Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Thursday, 10 August 2000, at 1:12 p.m.
In Response To: Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (Mitch Inkster)
Hi Mitch (and Mike),
Advice...build as you want and enjoy...then have another standing by when
my Japanese sources release their data. I have seen the stuff but can not
comment as they have "first rights" and I appreciate their good
will to allow me in their loop. Thought I had made that clear the last time.
Cheers,
David
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
Posted By: Rob Graham <mailto:reishikisenguy@aol.com?subject=Re: odd
colored Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Thursday, 10 August 2000, at 8:53 p.m.
In Response To: Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (David_Aiken)
David:
Thanks for the update on the new material. Are there newly discovered
photos, or are these interviews, or anything else? Also, as with the latest
stories of the Monogram book (a-HEM...), is there any scheduled printing or
release date? I like to plan ahead, as I build slowly. If I start a Val this
week, it'll be about 2002 before it's done, and I would like to not finish
it 3 days before the earth-shattering news comes out.
GAWWWD, AMS is terrible, ain't it???
Curious in Ft Worth.
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
Posted By: mike gawell <mailto:rockavenger@hotmail.com?subject=Re: odd
colored Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Thursday, 10 August 2000, at 10:28 p.m.
In Response To: Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (Rob Graham)
All :) (David esp.)
...and here I was about to state to Mitch that David would most likely say
about what I had said....GEEZ ya think ya know a guy...... :)
Actually I have 2 Vals in the supply just waiting for the news. I too hope
to see it soon. It just re-enforces the pride I have that I can state that
"I heard it here first...." Back to the twin SBD-3s...the Acc. Min
kit is a beaut!!, and "the Top secret project that has been languishing"
(Also known as "I really got to get off my dead butt and finish it.
Cheers
Mike
PS David ..Are you involved with the Monogram Book that is breathlessly
anticipated?
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
Posted By: Tony Feredo <mailto:aferedo@ibahn.net?subject=Re: odd
colored Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Monday, 7 August 2000, at 1:07 a.m.
In Response To: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (Mitch Inkster)
Hi Mitch,
I was suppose to ask a similar question in relation to some "Vals"
with "Yellow" wings. During my visit to the Intrepid Museum
in NY several years ago, there was a models of the "Akagi" (or
Kaga?) depicting it's flight deck during it's launch to attack Pearl Harbor.
In the rear portion of the flight deck, there were about two "Vals"
with different colors and the one that got my attention was the "yellow
colored wings".
I remember reading an article (I forgot the title) but it mentioned the
reason why some of the planes had different "colors" was that some
of them were plucked out of training in order to compensate the shortage of
aircraft for the attack on Pearl and that because of lack of time, they
decided to stick with it's "color" scheme. I am looking forward
for somebody else to validate this or any other answers to similar queries on the "colorful planes at Pearl".
Tony
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
Posted By: Mitch Inkster <mailto:mang521092@aol.com?subject=Re: odd
colored Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Monday, 7 August 2000, at 6:16 a.m.
In Response To: Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (Tony Feredo)
Hi Tony,
My first thought is that these brightly colored a/c could have been used
as assembly ships for the task force similar in nature to the polka dotted
B-24s the USAAC used in Europe during large bombing raids.
Mitch
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
Posted By: Tony Feredo <mailto:aferedo@ibahn.net?subject=Re: odd
colored Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Monday, 7 August 2000, at 9:54 a.m.
In Response To: Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (Mitch Inkster)
Yes and I agree with you. In that article (geeezzz, I still cant remember
the title or the author??!!!) it also said that these colorful planes also
served as lead planes for specific groups or waves in attack formation.
Egusa's "Val" had a distinctive colorful tail and so did Fuchida's
"Kate" during their raid at Pearl Harbor.
I am interested to read the other ideas and commentaries about our
inquiries on these "colorful planes" from our fellow J-Aircraft.com
enthusiasts
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
Posted By: Mitch Inkster <mailto:mang521092@aol.com?subject=Re: odd
colored Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Monday, 7 August 2000, at 10:33 a.m.
In Response To: Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (Tony Feredo)
Hiya Tony,
The article is titled The Hawaiian Operation and is written by Peter
Scott. Fuchida's Kate is shown with a red tail which in turn has three
yellow stripes. One stripe then AI-301 underneath it, then, two more yellow
stripes below that.
Mabuhuy.
Mitch
Posted By: James F.
Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Pearl Harbor Val Relic
Photos/Research Page Update *PIC*>
Date: Tuesday, 12 September 2000, at 3:35 a.m.
Please note that Dave PLUTH has
updated the Japanese Aircraft At Pearl Harbor Research page (Note: click
on the photographic images to enlarge them). Included are three new Zero
color profiles by Don MARSH, a photo of a "Hospital Kate"
fragment, and two photos of the dive brake assembly from a Val which is
believed to have crashed on the U.S.S. CURTISS.
Additional photos will be
periodically posted as they become available. Greg SPRINGER will be
contributing the results of his research of Pearl Harbor relics
("Hospital Kate" and the "IIDA Zero" remains) in the
NIMITZ Foundation Collection. Photos of other Val crash sites, relic
samples of two other Pearl Vals, a candid photo of IIDA with his Zero, and
the IIDA Zero crash site remains have been promised by various
individuals.
Please note that color photography
only gives an "indication" of the color values of the
unweathered relics. Analysis by color comparison of the actual unweathered
relics to a standard color reference (Munsell or FS 595B), as well as
colorimetric, spectrographic, and x-ray analysis of these pieces needs to
be done before a more accurate color report may be rendered. More
importantly, a determination of a possible color shift of the paint binder
needs to be made in order to judge the effect of aging on the present
color readings of the pigments used in the clear binder.
Please refer to the sample photo
below of the remains from a Val brought down at Pearl Harbor 7 December
1941. Note the lack of a primer coat and that the color is very close to
that having been reported officially as I 3 and unofficially described as
hairyokushoku "toward amber" or "grey-poupon."
Jim Lansdale
Question
Posted By: Phil
<mailto:Phil_Graf@baylor.edu?subject=Question>
Date: Tuesday, 12 September 2000, at 2:17 p.m.
In Response To: Pearl
Harbor Val Relic Photos/Research Page Update *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
Why is the upper part of the
assembly green? I thought all PH Vals were lighter colors.
Re: Question
Posted By: James F. Lansdale
<mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Re: Question>
Date: Tuesday, 12 September 2000, at 4:26 p.m.
In Response To: Question (Phil)
Phil
What you see as "green"
in the photo is the translucent aodake/aotake coating on the internal
portions of the arm which moved the dive brake. The interior surfaces of
the dive brake where primed in the same color. The external parts of the
dive brake, like the rest of the aircraft, were finished in a semi-gloss
hairyokushoku (gray-green toward amber or I 3) finish with NO primer
undercoat. Only the Kates had dark green upper surfaces.
Jim Lansdale
Re: Possible Answer
Posted By: Mike Quan
<mailto:MnkQuan@worldnet.att.net?subject=Re: Possible Answer>
Date: Tuesday, 12 September 2000, at 4:03 p.m.
In Response To: Question (Phil)
Hi Phil!
The green part you refer to
appears to be an internal stiffener or rib to the (what appears to be a)
flap assembly. That's my take on it.
Mike Quan
Rockwall, Texas
Re: Possible
Answer
Posted By: Greg Springer
<mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: Possible Answer>
Date: Tuesday, 12 September 2000, at 4:24 p.m.
In Response To: Re:
Possible Answer (Mike Quan)
Phil,
Mike is entirely correct. It is
part of the internal structure of one of the three support pylons for each
dive brake and the color is glossy translucent green. After each part was
formed it was sprayed prior to assembly and the tone varied greatly from
part to part. In general ribs, formers and stringers were darker in tone
than the coating on the skin metal. Streamlined metal fairings were
screwed on to the support structure and were removable for maintenance.
Cheers!
Greg
Posted By: James F.
Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors
*PIC*>
Date: Monday, 4 September 2000, at 2:18 p.m.
Preliminary examination and
analyses of two separate Aichi D3A Val and two Nakajima B5N Kates brought
down at Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941 have resulted in the following
information.
Three separate metal skin
fragments, a nearly complete dive brake assembly, and a sample of fabric
have been provided by the TOONEY Family and from the DANN Collection. Todd
PEDERSON and Bill WOLF spent considerable time recently in Hawaii
examining the Val fragments collected at the time of the crash in a sugar
cane field, and others from other sites. The TOONEY Family Collection
included a sample of fabric from the control surfaces. PEDERSON reported
all were hairyokushoku (gray-green) toward khaki.
The fabric sample examined was
similar to FS-24201/16350 and the Munsell match was 10 Y 5/1. The metal
samples were close to FS-16350 toward FS-16160 or close to Munsell 5 Y
5/3.
The DANN Collection included a
dive brake assembly from a KAGA Val thought to have crashed on the USS
CURTISS. Comparing these pieces to the FS 595B Color Fan samples the dive
brake pieces are most like FS-24201 toward FS-16160 (Munsell 5 Y 5/4).
Both Val sets of relics still had the original gloss paint and no evidence
of primer undercoat. The reverse sides of the pieces were aotake/aodake
translucent green.
An analysis of the Hospital Kate
fragments by Greg SPRINGER in the NIMITZ Museum Collection and another
fragment from Dan HIPPLE/LANSDALE Collections revealed that the Kate had
been painted hairyokushoku (gray green) or FS-24201/16350 (Munsell 7.5 Y
6/2) on the wing upper and lower surfaces. The wing upper surfaces were
then overpainted with a dark green FS-34077 (Munsell 5 GY 3/1). Greg
SPRINGER got readings which included FS-34079 for the dark green. Again,
as in the Val samples, there was no evidence of a primer coat. Another
Kate fragment in the Stan COHEN collection is natural metal and the sample
is so small it may have lost its original paint top coat. The reverse side
of all the Kate samples were aotake/aodake translucent blue-green.
Preliminary conclusions are that
the Vals and Kates which participated in the Pearl Harbor attack were
painted in colors similar to the Zeros (with the exception that the Kates
had varying degrees of dark green over the upper surfaces).
Is it possible that the tendency
of the Vals or Kates to appear in this, as David AIKEN aptly described as
"grey poupon," livery (Japanese Color Standards I3) caused some
observers to describe this color as a "yellow" in the early
morning light?
The only other fragment of a Val
examined was one recovered several years ago which, due to severe
oxidation appears to be a chalky gray finish. The fragments in the studies
cited above have all been sheltered from any weathering and stored since
collected in December 1941.
Dave PLUTH will shortly be posting
photos of these relics on the Pearl Harbor Research page.
Jim Lansdale
P.S. The scan below is from a
fragment of the HIRANO Zero from Todd PEDERSON. This color is close to the
original hue of the Val pieces.
Re: Pearl Harbor
Val/Kate Colors
Posted By: Claus Krüger
<mailto:rana24@freenet.de?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors>
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2000, at 12:46 p.m.
In Response To: Pearl
Harbor Val/Kate Colors *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
Hello to all,
the color greygreen for Aichi
Val's is a great surprise to me.MA 406 give's in the Text behind the Aichi
color chip a description-a little darker as Mitsubishi. The text behind
the Mitsubishi Gray say's-a Gray without
any Blue or Green. Is my Translation incorrect or is the colordescription
in
MA 406 wrong ?
Who can give me some help ?
Best Regards Claus
Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate
Colors
Posted By: James F. Lansdale
<mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors>
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2000, at 1:46 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Pearl Harbor
Val/Kate Colors (Claus Krüger)
Claus
Colors used by many artists and
authors in the past have been based on opinion or on previous color art,
not actual color comparisons to real relics from aircraft. The color
studies conducted by MIKESH, OWAKI, SPRINGER, THORPE, TOEWS, and myself
are based on actual pieces of aircraft, not what someone's interpretation
of what the colors should have been or written descriptions of the
aircraft hues.
Vals may have been in so-called
"Mitsubishi gray," as reported in MA No.406, however, the actual
relics analyzed were in the colors reported.
Jim Lansdale
Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate
Colors
Posted By: Phil
<mailto:Phil_Graf@baylor.edu?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate
Colors>
Date: Monday, 4 September 2000, at 8:26 p.m.
In Response To: Pearl Harbor
Val/Kate Colors *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
So, is this to say that a model
depicting an early war Val/Kate should be in the gray/green? I had been
under the impression that many or most Kates had natural metal or alclad
undersurfaces, and may have had green patches over natural metal on the
upper surfaces. Should this be the gray/green instead?
Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate
Colors
Posted By: James F. Lansdale
<mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors>
Date: Tuesday, 5 September 2000, at 4:38 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Pearl Harbor
Val/Kate Colors (Phil)
Phil
You wrote:
"So, is this to say that a
model depicting an early war Val/Kate should be in the gray/green?"
Unfortunately, for all those who
have built models of these aircraft in the past, it would appear that the
standard color for Vals and Kates at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack
was overall hairyokushoku (gray-green or "grey poupon"). Kates
were overpainted, prior to the attack, in dark green upper surfaces. Some
sources claim that brown was also used and several artists have depicted
this scheme. Thus far, no relics have shown evidence of brown paint. The
difference in mottling on the upper surfaces of Kates, as evidenced by b/w
photography, is probably due to the varied thickness of the hastily
applied dark-green paint over top of the hairyokushoku.
The variance in the hairyokushoku
hues (i.e. gray-green to a somewhat "tan" gray-green) may have
been due to different paint suppliers or paint specifications by aircraft
manufacturer. Many early Vals and Kates were either NMF or painted silver
(particularly those used in the campaign in China or in French
Indo-China). It is also quite possible that some Kates had NMF lower
surfaces at Pearl Harbor, but this is not certain. Check out the SORYU
Kate photo in FAOW No.32 on page 44 (bottom).
One Val relic recovered from the
Solomons did have aluminum paint on the lower surfaces, but the remaining
relics of Vals from this theater do have hairyokushoku (gray-green toward
khaki) lower surfaces. This color is very much like what OWAKI-san posted
as the Official Color Standards color called "I 3."
Jim Lansdale
Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate
Colors
Posted By: Phil
<mailto:Phil_Graf@baylor.edu?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate
Colors>
Date: Tuesday, 5 September 2000, at 9:51 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Pearl Harbor
Val/Kate Colors (James F. Lansdale)
This helps immensely. I have only
three questions left. One, what is "FAOW"? I've always enjoyed
modeling Japanese subjects, but I'm not too current on some of the
resources. Two, what paint currently on the market most closely matches
this "grey poupon" color? Thirdly, and I know this is less
relevant, but how were late war Kates painted? Was the underside color the
same, or was it changed? Thanks for all your help.
Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate
Colors
Posted By: James F. Lansdale
<mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors>
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2000, at 4:45 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Pearl Harbor
Val/Kate Colors (Phil)
Hi Phil
FAOW (FAW or FAOTW) represents
"Famous Aircraft Of the World" series published by BUNRINDO (of
Koku Fan fame) and some are available through HLJ or Aviation USK. I
believe No.32 is out of print.
I am unfamiliar with the
commercial paints which are similar to the varied hues of hairyokushoku.
Some folks, like Greg SPRINGER and Ryutaro NAMBU, have formulated their
own versions which are truly remarkable! Perhaps they will share their
"recipes" with you.
I have not seen any mid to late
war Kate relic samples, but they probably were dark green upper with
blue-gray (J2) lower surfaces. Vals, as evidenced by relics I have
examined, were darkgreen upper with blue-gray (J2) lower surfaces for
those manufactured during late 1942 on. Between February to late 1942 the
lower surfaces of Vals were either hairyokushoku or some other field
color. I have examined at least one early model Val relic from the
Solomons which still had the aluminum paint on the lower surfaces from the
pre-war period.
IHTH
Jim Lansdale
Re: Pearl Harbor
Val/Kate Colors
Posted By: Elephtheriou
George <mailto:elgeorge@otenet.gr?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate
Colors>
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2000, at 7:12 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Pearl
Harbor Val/Kate Colors (James F. Lansdale)
Konnichi wa,
a recipe I haven't tried yet, found in Model Art 510, suggests a mix with
Tamiya XF-49 (Chaki) 60%, XF-21 (Sky)40% and a little white, black, yellow
and green.
Mr. Lansdale, what is your oppinion whether a clear gloss varnish was
applied on top of this color or not?
domo,
George
Re: Paint Schemes/No
Varnish Top Coat
Posted By: James F. Lansdale
<mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Re: Paint Schemes/No Varnish Top
Coat>
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2000, at 8:57 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Pearl Harbor
Val/Kate Colors (Elephtheriou George)
Hi George
You ask, "(Was) a clear gloss
varnish ... applied on top of this color?"
There has been much controversy
regarding this alleged practice on the A5M Claude. No physical proof for
this practice was ever produced. The "Kamikaze" sponsored by the
Asahi Shimbun, which did an around the world good will tour during the
1930s, did have a very smooth clear top coat, but this practice does not
appear to have been carried out on military aircraft.
I have physically examined nearly
two hundred samples of IJA/NAF aircraft relics. Only one sample had
evidenced a varnish top coat. However, I believe that the owner applied
this coat on top of the Zero access panel after the war to preserve the
paint below and it was not done at the factory.
During the early war years, the
paint used by the Japanese was a clear binder to which a pigment was
added. The gloss produced was the nature of the binder. Later, the
Japanese added talc/clay to the paint mixture in order to produce a
non-specular or matte finish. This paint formula was first tested by the
Yokosuka technical test center in December 1941 (Yoko Report No.0266)
Jim Lansdale
Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate
Colors
Posted By: Greg Springer
<mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate
Colors>
Date: Monday, 4 September 2000, at 9:32 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Pearl Harbor
Val/Kate Colors (Phil)
Hi Phil,
Several artifacts from B5N2s off
the carrier 'Kaga' which were shot down at PH and which are held in
storage by the Nimitz Museum in Fredricksburg have a glossy base coat
matched to FS 16350 or a slightly lighter shade of same. Top sides are
very flat dark greens in the range FS 34079, 34064, 34084. Baylor eh?
Don't do much dancin' do ya'll? ;^)
Cheers! (Oops, sorry. You're in
Waco.)
Greg (Austin-based wise guy)
Posted By: Jon Parshall
<mailto:jonp@is.com?subject=Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A>
Date: Friday, 30 June 2000, at 3:36 p.m.
Anybody know the internal fuel
capacity of the Zero, Kate, and Val? I'll take liters, gallons, pounds,
drams, pints... whatever, and I ain't real picky about the specific model,
either.
Thanks,
-jon parshall-
www.CombinedFleet.com
Re: Fuel capacity of A6M,
B5N, D3A
Posted By: Jim Broshot
<mailto:jbroshot@socket.net?subject=Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N,
D3A>
Date: Saturday, 1 July 2000, at 8:44 p.m.
In Response To: Fuel capacity of
A6M, B5N, D3A (Jon Parshall)
This is from Aircraft in Profile
#240 "Aichi D3A ('Val') & Yokosuka D4Y ('Judy') Carrier Bombers
of the IJNAF (M. C. Richards and Donald S. Smith):
Fuel Capacity of D3A
"Internal 1,079 liters (235 Imperial gallons) in five unprotected
tanks; two in each wing, one under pilot's seat, all containing 92 octane
petrol. In starboard wing root, a small fuel tank (100 octane) for take
of; 58 liter (25.8 Imperial gal.). One 60 liter (13.2 Imp.gal.) oil tank
behind the engine."
Will dig out data on Zero and
Kate.
Re: Fuel capacity of A6M,
B5N, D3A
Posted By: Jon Parshall
<mailto:jonp@is.com?subject=Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A>
Date: Sunday, 2 July 2000, at 1:19 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Fuel capacity
of A6M, B5N, D3A (Jim Broshot)
You The Man. I'm guessing the Kate
carried about 180 gallons. I subtracted her empty weight (2,279kg) from
her loaded weight (3,800kg), plus payload and all that and got about
496kg. of fuel.
Loaded: 3,800
Empty: 2,279 -
Payload: 800 -
Crew: 225 - (figuring 75kg./165lb. per crewman x 3 crew)
= Fuel 496 kg.
Specific density of gasolines are
around .74, so 496 kilos of fuel is 496/.74= 671 liters. 671 liters is 177
gallons.
-jon-
Re: Fuel capacity of A6M,
B5N, D3A
Posted By: Jim Broshot
<mailto:jbroshot@socket.net?subject=Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N,
D3A>
Date: Sunday, 2 July 2000, at 5:58 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Fuel capacity
of A6M, B5N, D3A (Jon Parshall)
Thanks. Got tired of playing
Diablo II, so A6M fuel capacity:
A6M1 - internal: 518 liters (114 Imp.gal.)
drop tank: 330 liters (72.6 Imp.gal.)
A6M2 Model 21 - ditto
A6M2-N: internal: ditto
auxiliary tank in central float:
325 liters (71.5 Imp.gal.)
A6M2-K: internal: 380 liters (83.6 Imp.gal.)
from "The Mitsubishi A6M2
Zero-Sen" (by Rene J. Francillon, PhD) in
AIRCRAFT IN PROFILE - VOLUME SIX (Martin C. Windrow, General Editor);
Garden City NY: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1970 (No ISBN)
A6M3-Model 22: internal: 570
liters (125.4 Imp.gal.)
drop tank: 330 liters (72.6 Imp.gal.)
A6M3-Model 32: internal: 480
liters (105.6 Imp.gal.)
drop tank: same as above
from "The Mitsubishi A6M3
Zero-Sen ("Hamp")" (Rene J. Francillon, PhD) in
AIRCRAFT IN PROFILE - VOLUME EIGHT (Martin C. Windrow, General Editor);
Garden City NY: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1970 (No ISBN)
A6M5 Model 52: internal: 540
liters (189 Imp.gal.)
drop tank: 330 liters (72.6 Imp.gal.)
NOTE: A6M7 Model 63 carried bomb
on center line rack, had 2x 150 liter (33 Imp.gal.) wing-mounted drop
tanks
A6M8 Model 54 also carried center line bomb rack, had 2x 350 liter (77
Imp.gal )
wing mounted drop tanks. From "Mitsubishi A6M5 to A6M8 Zero-Sen
('Zeke 52')" (M. C. Richards and Donald S. Smith) in AIRCRAFT IN
PROFILE - VOLUME 12 (Charles W. Cain, General Editor);
Garden City NY: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1974 (ISBN (US)
0-385-09670-4)
Re: Fuel capacity of A6M,
B5N, D3A
Posted By: Jon Parshall
<mailto:jonp@is.com?subject=Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A>
Date: Sunday, 2 July 2000, at 7:36 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Fuel capacity
of A6M, B5N, D3A (Jim Broshot)
Thank you, and thank you for some
of the citation data; I neglected to mention that I need that, too. Would
it be asking too much to request the complete cite for this Val
information? I went looking on Amazon for other books of this series to
grab the cite that way, but no luck. Thanks; I really appreciate it!
Re: Fuel capacity of A6M,
B5N, D3A
Posted By: Jim Broshot
<mailto:jbroshot@socket.net?subject=Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N,
D3A>
Date: Sunday, 2 July 2000, at 12:16 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Fuel capacity
of A6M, B5N, D3A (Jon Parshall)
Full cite is:
"Aichi D3A ('Val') &
Yokosuka D4Y ('Judy') Carrier Bombers of the IJNAF (M. C. Richards and
Donald S. Smith) in AIRCRAFT IN PROFILE - VOLUME 13 (Charles W. Cain,
General Editor); Garden City, New York: Doubleday & Company, Inc.,
1974 (ISBN (USA) 0-385-09671-2).
Have privilege of owning all
thirteen hardbound volumes (it took 30+ years to get them all).
"Kate" Profile (No. 141
in Volume 6, and written by Dr. M. F. Hawkins), alas, has NO data on B5N
capacity except to state that, "integral fuel tanks, incorporating
wing upper and lower skin, were dropped between the main and rear spar of
the center section and fastened by a hinge arrangement along the
edges."
Will check the A6M stuff when I
have time later.
Posted By: Anthony Noel
<mailto:anoel@lonestar.utsa.edu?subject=D3A VAL 22 '35-209'>
Date: Saturday, 30 September 2000, at 2:11 p.m.
Greetings:
The decal sheet for my FUJIMI D3A VAL 22 includes a set of tail-codes for
a machine presumably assigned to the 35th Kokutai, "35-209". The
profile in the kit calls for dark green camouflage extending over the nose
deck and engine cowling. Are these markings accurate for a VAL 22? I
thought that black engine cowlings were standard for the VAL.
My only reference for the 35th
Kokutai is an OOB dated 14 July 1942 with twelve D3A model 11 VAL'S
assigned to this unit in the Dutch East Indies (Dr. FRANCILLON'S
"Japanese Navy Bombers" Doubleday 1971). What happened to the
35th Kokutai after the November 1942 reorganization? Were there any VAL'S
in the South Pacific prior to mid-1943?
Finally, what about the "data
panel" stencil carried on a dark green camouflaged VAL? Would the
stencil have a grey background as seen on Mitsubishi-built factory
camouflaged dark green A6M ZEKE'S?
Any help is sincerely appreciated!
Re: D3A VAL 22
"35-209"
Posted By: Tom Hall
<mailto:hall41@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22 '35-209'>
Date: Friday, 6 October 2000, at 1:13 p.m.
In Response To: D3A VAL 22
"35-209" (Anthony Noel)
Dear Mr. Noel,
There were lots of Vals in the SW
Pacific Area. Some bombed Rabaul in January 1942. However,
Model 22s were first deployed around January 1943. They were important in
the fight for the Solomons,
appeared on Japanese carriers, and flew suicide missions.
I don't think Fujimi put a very
good selection of decals into that kit.
Re: D3A VAL 22
"35-209"
Posted By: Anthony Noel
<mailto:anoel@lonestar.utsa.edu?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22 '35-209'>
Date: Monday, 9 October 2000, at 4:35 p.m.
In Response To: Re: D3A
VAL 22 "35-209" (Tom Hall)
Dear Mr. Hall
Sir:
I quite agree with your assessment
of the decal selection included in the FUJIMI 1/72 D3A VAL 22 kit.
The situation is particularly
vexing as the Model 22 comprised the main production variant of the VAL
series. In any case, I've found very little to go on in terms of
historically appropriate camouflage and/or unit markings and tail-codes
for the VAL 22. The quality of the few published photographs I've seen are
decidedly poor, making any reasonable consideration of what front-line
combat unit Model 22 VAL'S actually looked like next to impossible.
Any help in this matter is , as
always, sincerely appreciated!
Respectfully, Anthony
Re: D3A VAL 22
Posted By: Tom Hall
<mailto:hall41@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Monday, 9 October 2000, at 7:08 p.m.
In Response To: Re: D3A
VAL 22 "35-209" (Anthony Noel)
Dear Anthony,
I wish I could sell you Asahi
Journal 3,2, but for the time being it isn't available. It had over 80 Val
profiles. Another source would be Famous Airplanes of the World 33 of
1992. It was on Val.
Unfortunately, many of the tail
markings were in amber or red for the Model 22. I have not decided yet
what kit I am going to rob for such!
Re: D3A VAL 22
Posted By: Anthony Noel
<mailto:anoel@lonestar.utsa.edu?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Wednesday, 11 October 2000, at 12:06 p.m.
In Response To: Re: D3A
VAL 22 (Tom Hall)
Dear Tom,
Thank you for the information, I'll try and track down the FAOW issue you
have cited.
Red or amber tail codes are exactly what I would expect for an operational
IJN aircraft in the late war period. However, I'm still not sure about the
engine cowling being painted camouflage green instead of black?
Respectfully, Anthony
Re: D3A VAL 22
Posted By: Tom Hall
<mailto:hall41@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Wednesday, 11 October 2000, at 2:50 p.m.
In Response To: Re: D3A
VAL 22 (Anthony Noel)
Black on a Model 22 cowl
would have been exceptional. I believe the factory treatment was dark green for
the upper nose, and most photos show same.
Re: D3A VAL 22
Posted By: Greg Springer
<mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Wednesday, 11 October 2000, at 3:22 p.m.
In Response To: Re: D3A
VAL 22 (Tom Hall)
Hi Tom,
Nimitz's Val 22 cowling is black.
I think they transitioned to green during the production run.
Cheers!
Greg
Re: D3A VAL 22
Posted By: Tom Hall
<mailto:hall41@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Wednesday, 11 October 2000, at 3:28 p.m.
In Response To: Re: D3A
VAL 22 (Greg Springer)
Interesting!
Have you ever checked what's
underneath
the black?
Re: D3A VAL 22
Posted By: Greg Springer
<mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Wednesday, 11 October 2000, at 3:59 p.m.
In Response To: Re: D3A
VAL 22 (Tom Hall)
Hi Tom,
It's pretty worn down and I think
only red primer is beneath. That cowling is on s/n 3105. I will try to
check it further on Friday. The prop blades from s/n 3357 show unfinished
metal with one red warning stripe on the front face and brown on the rear.
The spinner was dark green.
Cheers!
Greg
Re: D3A VAL 22
Posted By: Anthony Noel
<mailto:anoel@lonestar.utsa.edu?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Thursday, 12 October 2000, at 6:17 p.m.
In Response To: Re: D3A
VAL 22 (Greg Springer)
Greetings,
The relevant information on VAL 22 camouflage details are quite
interesting. Am I correct in assuming that the unfinished metal prop
blades on s/n 3357 belonged to a Model 11 VAL, or was this machine in fact
a Model 22 VAL?
Any information on land based
units operating the VAL 22 in the Philippines and/or Taiwan in 1944 and
1945 ?
As always, any help is gratefully
appreciated!
Anthony
Re: D3A VAL 22 Air
Units
Posted By: Allan
<mailto:Wildcat42@AOL.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22 Air Units>
Date: Friday, 13 October 2000, at 5:26 p.m.
In Response To: Re: D3A
VAL 22 (Anthony Noel)
Tony,
With the reorganization on July
10, 1944, all 500 air units were deactivated. I know of no organized unit
that operated from September of 1944 except that of 954
Kokutai.
Al
Re: D3A VAL 22
Posted By: Greg Springer
<mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Thursday, 12 October 2000, at 7:58 p.m.
In Response To: Re: D3A
VAL 22 (Anthony Noel)
Hello Anthony,
Val s/n 3357 was a type 22 of the
582nd Ku operating out of Rabaul, possibly in the last week of December,
1943. At this time I believe the 582nd was only operating Aichi 99 type
22s. The prop and tail section were recovered from Cape Mensing, New
Britain. The aircraft had burned after a crash into trees. A .50 bullet
hole is in one of the prop blades. Cape Mensing is on the north coast just
east of Cape Gloucester. Tail code of this aircraft is 82-248. During the
landings at Cape Gloucester a large number of Aichi 99s were involved in
attacks on the landing force and suffered heavy losses. Among those
scoring on these attacks was Tommy McGuire. One of his victories is
portrayed on the cover of the Squadron 'P-38 Lightning in Action' No. 109.
Sorry, I don't have any info on Vals in the locations or time periods you
requested.
Cheers!
Greg
Re: D3A VAL 22
Posted By: Anthony Noel
<mailto:anoel@lonestar.utsa.edu?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Friday, 13 October 2000, at 5:14 p.m.
In Response To: (Greg
Springer)
Hello Greg,
Thanks for the information. I must
say that I'm not surprised to see VAL 22 s/n 3357 as having been assigned
to the 582nd Kokutai out of Rabaul. Now I'll need to make up a set of 1/72
scale "82-248" tail-codes!
Sincerely,
Anthony
Re: D3A VAL 22
Posted By: Greg Springer
<mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Friday, 13 October 2000, at 4:02 p.m.
In Response To: Re: D3A
VAL 22 (Greg Springer)
Hi Tom,
I closely examined the cowling of
the Val 22 this morning. There is no coat between the black and the red
primer. The black also covers cowling inner surfaces and the firewall.
James Long's monograph on that plane states that the build date for it is
estimated to be Jan. 17, 1943 and that s/n 3357 was built on August 15,
1943.
Cheers!
Greg
Re: D3A VAL
22/Propeller Colors
Posted By: James F.
Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22/Propeller Colors>
Date: Wednesday, 11 October 2000, at 4:27 p.m.
In Response To: Re: D3A
VAL 22 (Greg Springer)
Greg
You write about the NIMITZ Museum
Val that, "The prop blades from s/n 3357 show unfinished metal with
one red warning stripe on the front face and brown on the rear."
This further supports the evidence
now available that the early props with polished metal forward surfaces
had dark brown rear surfaces rather that the often quoted
"black."
Thank you for the "bits and
pieces" information!!! May I have the closest FS number for the brown
(Munsell if possible)?
Jim Lansdale
Re: D3A VAL 22
"35-209"
Posted By: Allan Alsleben
<mailto:Wildcat42@AOL.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22 '35-209'>
Date: Saturday, 30 September 2000, at 7:37 p.m.
In Response To: D3A VAL 22
"35-209" (Anthony Noel)
The 35th Kokutai was assigned to
Makassar, 23rd Special Base Force - 2nd Southern Expeditionary Fleet. With
the Reorganization in November of '42, it became the 956 Kokutai which
went to Rabaul, which later was disbanded at Rabaul.
It would appear that the 22 Model
was correct for this unit.
Al
Posted By: Mike Yeo <mailto:ymike@singnet.com.sg?subject=35th
Kokutai 'Vals'>
Date: Tuesday, 12 December 2000, at 1:31 p.m.
This thread was posed on this board
a while back, unfortunately I forgot to save the information before the
"board cleaning" carried out a while back so I'll just have to ask
again, I'm afraid.
When did the 35th Ku operate D3A2
"Vals" out of Makassar, Celebes and what sort of operations did
they take part in during this period? And also, are the red tail numbers on
Green camoflage as given by the Fujimi 1/72 D3A2 standard practice during
this period?
Again, thanks in advance,
Mike
Re: 35th Kokutai
"Vals"
Posted By: Allan Alsleben
<mailto:Wildcat42@AOL.com?subject=Re: 35th Kokutai 'Vals'>
Date: Wednesday, 13 December 2000, at 3:37 p.m.
In Response To: 35th Kokutai
"Vals" (Mike Yeo)
Hello Mike,
35th Ku was formed at Takao Formosa
on February 1st 1942 and was assigned to Makassar on the 6th of the month.
It had detachments briefly at Jugjakarta, Balikpapan, Kupang, Kendari and
Waingapu. Their principle assignment was Anti-Submarine Patrol and assist in
clearing pockets of resistance such as the Australians on Timor. They were
also partially responsible for the destruction of HMAS Voyager after she was
grounded at Betano Bay, Timor. The 35th became 956 Ku on November 1st at
which time 10 of her 12 aircraft were loaded aboard Unyo for arrival at
Rabaul on November 10th. This unit was soon deactivated at Rabaul, being
absorbed by 582 Ku.
Al
Re: 35th Kokutai
"Vals"
Posted By: Garth <mailto:garth.o'connell@awm.gov.au?subject=Re:
35th Kokutai 'Vals'>
Date: Friday, 15 December 2000, at 6:49 p.m.
In Response To: Re: 35th Kokutai
"Vals" (Allan Alsleben)
Al,
That is extremely interesting, as I
am researching the 2/2 Independent Company (Commando) who operated behind
Japanese lines in Portugese Timor (now newly Independent East Timor) during
1942 and 43.
In their memoirs they describe the
regular recon flights flown over and around Timor by Dinah's and possibly
Val's - searching for their whereabouts.
I would love to hear any other
stories and references to Japanese vs Australian forces in WWII that you may
have!
Kind regards,
Garth
Re: Timor and Elsewhere
Posted By: Allan Alsleben
<mailto:Wildcat42@AOL.com?subject=Re: Timor and Elsewhere>
Date: Saturday, 16 December 2000, at 9:47 a.m.
In Response To: Re: 35th Kokutai
"Vals" (Garth)
Hello Garth,
The information derived came from
the following:
Department of Defence - Naval History Directorate - Maritime Studies Progam
in Canberra
On the Japanese side:
War Diaries from the 24th Base Force and the 23rd Koku Sentai plus Mongraph
#116 and the published "Raids on Australia" 1997 by National
Institute for Defense Studies in Tokyo. Also various monographs
"Australia North" published by NAV (USSBS) from IJA
interrogations.
Timor was just one part of the
equation to the Japanese. There was Tanimbar, Meruake and the Kai/Aru
Islands in the Banda Sea, and they all played a part. I don't claim to be an
expert on Timor, only gaining information about the events as they happened.
However, at the time of HMAS
Armidale's sinking, the Japanese were in the process of reoccuppying
Tanimbar on November 10th 1942. So, in order to understand what was
happenening on Timor, one must also learn what was happening elsewhere.
General McArthur didn't want to become involved in Timor and stated as such
to General Blamey (AWM). Really, there is much information available to you
in Australia than I could get to, except from Japan. If you wish for a
complete breakdown on the the Japanese occupations of the above, I can
supply that information, but my knowledge of 2/2 and other units (Sparrow
Force) are limited. My information is strictly NAVAL and very little Army.
If you feel that this information is of value to you, contact me off-line.
HTH - Al
Al
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=The
Sad Fate Of The Deba Three *PIC*>
Date: Sunday, 22 October 2000, at 9:00 a.m.
"A flight of three enemy
aircraft (Aichi D3A1 Vals) made a forced landing on the 3rd September,
1942, on the beach of Table Bay near the village of Deba, Papua, New
Guinea, Lat.10/17'S., Long.149/10'E....The six Japanese flyers who
composed the three crews attempted to destroy the aircraft by burning the
cockpits and surrounding section. Six days later the Japanese all were
killed in a skirmish with native police, under the direction of an
A.N.G.A.U. officer, after attempts to have them surrender were to no
avail."
HQAAFSWPAA Director of
Intelligence, Enemy Material Report No.50, 24 October 1942
The three Aichi D3A1 Vals were:
s/n 3114 [Q-219]
s/n 3110 [Q-216]
s/n 3287 [Q-218] ex [-273]
All three were from the No.2
kaigun kokutai and were painted dark green above and gray on the lower
surfaces.
Jim Lansdale
Re: The Sad Fate Of The
Deba Three
Posted By: Ryan Toews <mailto:ritoews@mb.sympatico.ca?subject=Re:
The Sad Fate Of The Deba Three>
Date: Tuesday, 24 October 2000, at 3:27 p.m.
In Response To: The Sad Fate Of
The Deba Three *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
Hello Jim,
Thanks for this posting. I've
always been wondering which serial numbers went with which tail codes in
the case of these three Vals. Interestingly, Q-218 still carried the 73
part of its former code on the front of its wheel spats.
For anyone that is looking for
more background on these planes see Peter Smith's book Aichi D3A1/2 Val
pages 136-138.
Re: The Sad Fate Of The
Deba Three
Date: Thursday, 2 November 2000,
at 7:49 p.m.
In Response To: Re: The Sad Fate
Of The Deba Three (Ryan Toews)
Ryan,
Would you have any ISBN numbers
for this book you mentioned?
Thanks,
Garth
Re: The Sad Fate Of The
Deba Three
Posted By: Ryan Toews <mailto:ritoews@mb.sympatico.ca?subject=Re:
The Sad Fate Of The Deba Three>
Date: Thursday, 2 November 2000, at 8:42 p.m.
In Response To: Re: The Sad Fate
Of The Deba Three (Garth)
Hello Garth,
The Val book is Peter C. Smith,
Aichi D3A1/2 Val, The Crowood Press, 1999, ISBN 1 86126 278 7. For the
Deba Val account Smith also cites a source that may be available in
Australia - Robert Kendall Piper, 'Dive-bomber "blow-ins"',
Australasian Post, 2 January 1986. Hope this helps.
Ryan
Posted By: Andrew Johnson <mailto:ajo@ceh.ac.uk?subject=Modelling
a PH Val>
Date: Wednesday, 24 January 2001, at 4:12 a.m.
Dear Colleagues
I am having great fun modelling
the 1/48 Hasegawa Val with the CMK cockpit. As usual some questions
emerge:
1) I suspect the Vals only carried the centreline bomb to Pearl. If you
want to leave the wings clean do you leave the brackets only for the wing
bombs?
2) For the centreline bomb is it grey with a yellow ring around the nose?
3) I assume it is OK to add the underfuselage DF housing?
4) I intend to use the late
lamented aeromaster acrylic navy grey (ami-ro) colour but wonder if it is
too grey. should I add a yellow undercoat to make it more caramel?
5)The cowl back to the cockpit is
blue-black. Should I mask the fuselage to the exhaust pipes using masking
tape (ie a straight line) which conforms to the curve of the fuselage, or
should I make a curved mask?
Fortunately I picked up an
aeromaster Tora sheet.
Thanks
Andrew
Re: Modelling a PH Val
Posted By: David_Aiken <mailto:David_Aiken@hotmail.com?subject=Re:
Modelling a PH Val>
Date: Sunday, 28 January 2001, at 5:29 p.m.
In Response To: Modelling a PH Val
(Andrew Johnson)
Hi Andrew.